Building Resilience: Timeless Tips from Experienced Professionals - Episode 3: Anne G

Transcript created with Rev AI. Intro and outro music created with Suno AI.

 

Episode transcript:

 

Bethany:

All right. Welcome everybody to Building Resilience Timeless Tips from experienced Professionals. Just as a recap, here's how this works. This is a podcast where I, Bethany Rankin, interview seasoned professionals who have successfully navigated the business world or have recently retired on their tips for resiliency in the workplace for young professionals. We have four segments. The first is career trajectory where we'll hear a bit about the industry they were in, how they worked their way up to their last or current position, and the challenges they faced. The second segment is defining resilience. We'll hear about their definition of resilience and how it's changed over the years and pivotal moments that help define how they view and practice resilience. Third segment is tangible and timeless tips. We'll hear their main tips for young professionals and building resilience. And fourth is your favourite piece of advice where we'll hear their favourite piece of advice they've received and how it's helped shape their current outlook on resilience in the workplace. And with that, let's begin.

 

All right, and welcome everybody to episode three of Building Resilience. Today on the podcast we have Anne G. Anne, thank you so much for joining us today.

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Anne:

No problem. It's my pleasure.

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Bethany:

Alright, well let's get right into things. So segment number one, career trajectory. So Anne, can you tell us a little bit about your career trajectory and the industry or industries you were in?

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Anne:

Yeah. Well, I worked my entire career for the Ontario government starting the week after my final university exam.

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Bethany:

Wow.

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Anne:

I worked first at the Ministry of Treasury and Economics. It's now called the Ministry of Finance. And then I worked at the Ministry of Agriculture, food and Rural Affairs.

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Bethany:

Awesome. So could you tell us a bit about your last or most senior-level role?

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Anne:

My last level was I was a manager of business support services and I managed a group of about 10 individuals in the corporate services division.

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Bethany:

Awesome. So what lessons did you learn from your job transitions or shifts in your career?

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Anne:

Government is a great career. It lets you move around a lot, either trying to something new or specializing in an area with the ability to use those skills in different ministries. Every ministry has its own culture and Interesting files, so moving can be a way to expand your career and experience.

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Bethany:

Great. And what challenges did you encounter as you advanced in your career and how did you overcome them?

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Anne:

I think everyone experiences challenges at some point in their career and it's often a disconnect between where you are in your current role and where you want to be. I can think of a couple of times where the job I was in was not a good fit for me and it became a source of stress in those times. I applied for positions that were a better fit and it was also time for me to use connections I made over the years to move to a better suited position, which speaks to the value of making and maintaining good relationships. And government is something you move around a lot in to another ministry or another area in the ministry, which is helpful when you need a change.

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Bethany:

Yeah, awesome. I know even for myself, when I came out of my MPH, I was in research for a little bit and I really liked the skills that I got to grow in research, but ultimately I really wanted to get back into policy and that's how I found my current role. So I think in terms of aligning your job or transitions from job to job with where you want to be in your career is so important. And with that we'll move into segment number two, defining resilience. So segment number two, defining resilience, your definition of resilience now and throughout the years. So how do you define resilience at work?

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Anne:

I would say resilience is the ability to maintain a positive outlook towards your work and to keep going regardless of setbacks encountered. It's the ability to see the bigger picture and not take things personally and realize that it's not about you, that it's work. Your idea or your file might not be popular, but basically it's not about you

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Bethany:

Don't take it personally. Yeah, no, I think that's a huge thing that I've learned too, dealing with different stakeholders or different people and different jobs that I've had is like you can't take things personally because different people communicate in different ways and maybe are super blunt about certain things, but they're not trying to be mean about it. Or maybe they have their own things going on or whatever it might be. But just rolling with it, doing your own thing and not taking it personally even if it is difficult to deal with at the time.

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Anne:

Absolutely.

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Bethany:

Great. So how would you say your definition of resilience has changed from the beginning of your career to now?

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Anne:

As you go through your career, you learn not only from your own experiences but the successes and failures of those around you? So at the beginning of my career, I only had my perspective on what success failure or resiliency is. But throughout my career I've watched the success and failures of others and often thought to myself, well, I wouldn't have thought of doing it that way or note to self never do that. And I've learned from others as well. So the result is a more resilient me than my younger self. And now I also have the ability to see that it isn't about me. Work is work, don't take things personally. Just as you said, it's not about you.

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Bethany:

Yeah. I know for me, I was talking to a friend about this the other day, but just so far in my twenties I feel like every year my definition probably has changed too. There's such a learning curve between being in university as a student versus your first few years in your career, et cetera, and the learning curve that comes with that and building up your resilience because sometimes getting certain feedback can be hard or when somebody wants to do something differently or you change completely in terms of direction on a project, it can be hard to deal with that. But maintaining that resilience and knowing that it's not about you, it's like just go with the flow is so important too.

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Anne:

Definitely.

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Bethany:

So then can you describe a key milestone or milestones in your career that contributed to your definition of resilience?

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Anne:

I think for the most part it's been a progressive thing over my career. However, there was one position I had where I was able to have a front row seat to see the decision making of the organization and I was able to sit in on senior management meetings, watch many briefings of the deputy minister, and it really provided me with an ability to see and learn from others. And just like I said earlier, I saw successes and I also learned from other people's failures as well.

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Bethany:

Right. Yeah, I think that's a really interesting thing because I've had some opportunities recently to sit in on certain meetings at work with my bosses and with different stakeholders and it's really interesting learning from people that are higher up and seeing how they view things and deal with different issues that arise and come up with different solutions. So that's also really interesting way of building resilience, seeing how they practice resilience too

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Anne:

And they see a different level of the organization, they have a different view, so it is good to be able to learn from them as well.

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Bethany:

So then in what ways did setbacks or failures redirect your career path?

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Anne:

Yeah, setbacks or failures, they always provide me with a time when I was able to look internally and whether I was in the right job at the right time or what supports around me, I may have been inadequate. And this provided me with an internalist I started developing of what I should be looking for in a job. So it gave me a clear focus on when I was looking for a new job, what to look for and what jobs I would not be happy in.

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Bethany:

One question, I think I asked my own bosses now and the interview was “how do you deal with conflicts?” or “what does a day-to-day look like”? To hear about how they would be as a boss too and be as a support to me in the role. So that was interesting. I've had previous positions where my bosses weren't as accessible, so it kind of provided me some insight there on how they would be if I needed to lean on them, et cetera. And I know for me, in even just looking at practicum experiences, there was one practicum experience that I really wanted when I was doing my master's and I didn't end up getting it and I was super bummed out about it at the time, but actually the alternate position that I did end up getting led to a full-time position afterwards.

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Anne:

So it all worked out.

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Bethany:

So it all worked out.

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Anne:

It was for the best!

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Bethany:

Yeah, exactly.

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Anne:

And that often happens, right? It's a job you want or an opportunity and it doesn't end up happening and something else comes along.

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Bethany:

So then how did mentorship or guidance shape your career path and definition of resilience?

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Anne:

I've been fortunate to have people I've worked with who are farther along in their careers and have been able to have conversations with them when I needed it. I kept good relations with them and checking in with them when I had questions or needed some advice was always valuable and they usually had a different perspective and saw the organization from a different lens than I did and could provide me with some good advice. And it was also an ability to see myself from their viewpoint and just provide that check that my perspective was still on track.

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Bethany:

Awesome. Yeah, I know for me, my current boss is I do view them as mentors in certain ways because like I said, viewing or seeing how they practice resilience and deal with different problems has really shaped how I practice resilience and view problems and knowing that there's always a solution that we can come up with together is very important. And having supportive bosses is has been so good, at least in terms of my resilience in building that up for me. 

Anne:

You should always have a boss that you can learn from.

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Bethany:

Yes. Yes, I agree. So then later on in your career, how did you cultivate or foster resilience in your team or workplace?

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Anne:

Later in my career, I had the opportunity to be manager for a great group of people and they were at various stages in their career. And I was able to mentor and coach them based on my years of experience. I think I was farther along in my career. I could provide advice based on my foundation of resiliency as a manager. I had biweekly one-on-one meetings with each individual on my team, and I also had weekly team meetings and all those touch points allowed me to know what each individual might've been struggling with or who may need additional supports. It also gave each individual the chance to bring issues or concerns to me so we could work through them. Open dialogue between me and my team and across the team I found was invaluable for building resiliency on the team.

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Bethany:

I mean, even in my current role, we have weekly team meetings with everybody on our little team of five, and then I have usually at least one meeting a week with my immediate boss, which I find is great. And again, just seeing how they view problems and how they come up with solutions has been so insightful for me. And then even being a supervisor myself, I've had a few students now checking in with them regularly. I try and do two checkpoints a week and make sure that I know what's going on and if they have any questions and things like that. So making sure that they feel supported, like you said is very important.

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Anne:

That's good.

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Bethany:

So with that, we'll move into segment three, tangible and timeless tips.

 

Wonderful. So moving into segment number three now, tangible and timeless tips, your tips for young professionals. So what strategies do you or did you use to maintain a positive mindset during difficult times at work?

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Anne:

I often remind myself that more than my career or life at work I think of on other successes in other parts of my life and I ensure that I've enjoyments or satisfactions from those areas as well. And I work on how to improve things at work. I don't like being stressed or unhappy at work, and when I'm in that state, I always look for how can I rebalance things again? And I usually had a colleague I could lean on and talk things through during a difficult time. Sometimes this is helpful just to hear that someone else had the same issues that they were experiencing or they can provide me with friendly advice, which always helped to reset my mindset and have maintain a positive outlook.

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Bethany:

Awesome. And so what advice would you give to young professionals in terms of building their resilience and maintaining a positive mindset?

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Anne:

Well, from in government there's always going to be periods when what you're working on or spent your career working on. Justice isn't the political hot topic of the current government in power, and I've seen people devastated by this. I would just say, hang in there. We go to the polls every four years and under another administration, your file may be on the election platform. Our jobs are to be the expert on our file and offer our best advice, and it's always the minister's prerogative to take or reject that advice based on their view of the world. Knowing what you can influence and what you can't, I believe is key to maintaining a positive outlook.

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Bethany:

Awesome. Sometimes things are just outside of your control and that's something you just have to accept.

 

Anne:

Exactly. Particularly in government, right?

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Bethany:

(Laughs)

So or do you employ any daily habits that help build or maintain your resilience?

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Anne:

For many years, I allowed work to penetrate the rest of my life and I would take work or reading home in the evening or weekend, and it really didn't allow me the ability to shut off work. So in the last few years, I made a conscious effort to leave work at work unless absolutely necessary getting ready for a vacation or if there's some time sensitive item that I had to work in the evening, then absolutely I would do it. But for the most part, I would leave work at work. I also found it helpful to do an open issues list at the end of the day for things that either need to be addressed the next day or on my mind as needing resolution over the coming weeks, just so put it down on paper and it feels much better having it on paper than having it rattle around in your head as something that you have to get addressed. I also commuted to work and use that 30 minute drive to decompress and wrap things up in my mind at the end of the day. So I realize that not everyone commutes. So for those working from home, I would suggest at the end of the day, go for a walk or exercise or do something that allows you that closure.

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Bethany:

Awesome. Yeah, I know, I work almost completely remotely and for me it's just leaving anything work related at my desk and not taking it to my couch or somewhere else in my apartment to work. Work stays on my desk and doesn't penetrate into the rest of my living space. But I am really bad at checking my work phone after hours I will say, but I just like to see if there's anything that pops up. But I try my best not to.

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Anne:

It's hard.

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Bethany:

It is, but I actually do a similar thing, so I keep a list of all of the tasks I need to do for that week or the coming weeks, and I star the important ones, or I write down a couple of things that I want to do for the next day, because again, if I don't do that and it's not written out explicitly, it'll be rolling around or rattling around in my head until I can get to it.

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Anne:

Definitely.

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Bethany:

Yeah. Yeah. Great. So then what advice would you give to young professionals about bouncing back from failure or missed opportunities?

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Anne:

I see failure and missed opportunities as very different. So I'll talk about failures first and then missed opportunities. In balancing back from failure, I feel you really need to learn from the failure, what went wrong, how can I learn from this, and what do I need to do to change to prevent this from happening again? Are there people you need to address your failure with or apologize to? People are generally forgiving. I have seen someone who made mistakes but took feedback and changed and went back to people he had offended and apologized, and that worked really well for him. Overcoming failure is possible and I think you need to tackle it head on and talk to people to show them that it won't happen again. I think for missed opportunities, I would say try not to live too much in a regret or the world of if only other opportunities will come along and just be ready for them.

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Bethany:

Yeah, I would say something I've been saying a lot is you got to pivot. I've been saying that to my mom a lot. “I'm in the season of the pivot” I've been saying, and regarding failures, I find that I am somebody that tends to ruminate on certain things. And so also with the pivoting kind of thing, noting what could have gone better or what went wrong, and then just using that as a learning opportunity and moving on from it and not just ruminating on, oh, maybe this is a better outcome that could have happened, or whatever it might be. I actually saw a really interesting thing on TikTok the other day, and it was talking about how sometimes when we make one decision and maybe it doesn't turn out the best, the alternate decision that you think might've been better might not have necessarily been a better outcome.

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Anne:

It's a good point. In your mind, you think it is, but that might not have happened.

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Bethany:

Yeah, exactly. So just an interesting tidbit there. And burnout is a very hot topic these days, so how can young professionals balance, ambition and resilience to avoid burnout?

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Anne:

This is a great question. I feel young professionals need to take a long-term view of their career. And easy for me to say at the end of my career, I know what it was like. Many young professionals put stress on themselves by thinking they need to achieve certain milestones by specific dates or timelines. I think they need to know that they will get where they to go or where they want to go in their careers eventually. And burning themselves out to get there sooner just isn't worth it

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Bethany:

For sure. Yeah. And so what tips would you give young professionals in terms of cultivating or fostering resilience within their teams at work?

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Anne:

Having a non-competitive spirit on a team is foundational. If you're not all polling in the same direction or looking out for each other, you won't be able to create a solid team. And as a young professional, sometimes it can be easy to see everyone as a competitor all vying for a promotion, but everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses. So work with who is on your team and have confidence in your own ability of what you're bringing to that team. And also everyone's going to have a difficult period in their life, breakups, health issues, death of a loved one, something's going to happen. And it's important to realize that while you may be the one providing a solid foundation to your coworkers as they go through a tough time, at some point you may need to draw on them to help you go through a difficult time. So having a true team mindset will provide that foundation resiliency. The other part I would say is on a resiliency on a team is to keep a positive mindset when disappointments or setbacks happen. This may mean that you as an individual need to step back and reassess the situation on your own so you don't get pulled into negative group think and then can rejoin that group with a positive perspective.

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Bethany:

Yeah, that's really interesting that you had mentioned viewing others as competition, because I was just in a conversation with a friend of mine and she just started a new job as a consultant and she was talking about how she went to a networking event and she felt like everybody there viewed her as competition. And she was like, well, how am I supposed to feel a part I'm a part of the team or that I can lean on others if everybody's kind of trying to get one up on each other all the time? And I think that's so important on my team now, there are a couple of young people or new grads and we all support each other. And I will say, I think that's so great, and I feel like I can lean on my coworkers in that sense because we're not competing with each other. We view each other as a team and we're willing to help each other out. And I know for my friend who is in that kind of difficult environment, she's struggling and it's also kind of like it was affecting her mental health in a certain way because she's like, everybody's looking for ways to get one up on me.

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Anne:

That’s really hard.

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Bethany:

Yeah.

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Anne:

I think as young people, you find that a little bit more, at least in my experience, than when you're more advanced in your career and everyone is a little bit more confident in where they are in their career.

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Bethany:

Yeah, that's a good tip. So then we talk about, but I think another important part of maintaining your mental health is also knowing when to walk away from a toxic environment or a job that isn't right for you. So what would you say are some things to consider if someone is contemplating either sticking it out or finding another job?

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Anne:

Yeah, it's a tough situation and I have been there. It isn't worth being in toxic environment if it's impacting your mental health, but the answer really depends on the situation. If this is the job you love and you really want and you think that whoever or whatever is creating the toxic environment will leave, then I would say stick it out. People are always moving around, especially in government, so they probably will move on at some point. However, if the situation isn't going to change, then I would just say leave work just isn't worth it. It's where we spend the majority of our time. And so if it's a toxic environment, you don't foresee it changing, then I would suggest looking for something else.

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Bethany:

Yeah, that's really good advice because you have to do what's best for you at the end of the day. So if it's a job that you really love and it's aligned with where you want to be in your career, then maybe it's best to stick it out. But if it's an environment that isn't right for you and you'd like to be in a different area anyway, you're kind of hitting two birds with one stone there

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Anne:

Move on if you can. It's easy to say, I know it takes time to find something.

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Bethany:

And then what are your tips for young professionals on seeking support from their bosses when needed?

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Anne:

I think bosses can be a great resource when you need it. Your boss is someone who's advanced further in their career and will see the organization things in it that you don't see, right? They see it from a different viewpoint. So they can be a great resource to understand the decision making and how things fit together in the company or government that you work in. I think for personal issues, if you're going through a difficult time and your work is impacted, I would say you need to talk to your boss as well. Without details, people will make up their own narrative. And human nature is that we're always more critical when we make up our own narrative. I used to tell my staff I couldn't help them if I didn't know. So I was more sympathetic and tried to help if I knew someone was going through a difficult time than those that may not be performing at work, but weren't telling me that they were dealing with something else in their life.

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Bethany:

That's really good point, because if your work is affected and maybe you're not operating at full capacity and you're not telling your boss why, or if there's something else that's impacting it, then they just think you're not meeting the deadlines or whatever it might be. They don't have that inner context, right.

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Anne:

They'll make up their own story. (Laughs)

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Bethany:

And with that, we'll move into our last segment, your favourite piece of advice. Moving on to our last segment, your favourite piece of advice. So Anne, could you share your favourite piece of advice that you've received in the workplace and how it shaped your outlook on resilience?

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Anne:

One of my first measures I had in the government was at the Ministry of Finance, used to instill in me that there's more to life than work. And he used to remind me that work is interesting and that people are great. He would say if he were to drop dead, people would say, that's too bad. He was such a great guy, and work would carry on, and they would quickly forget about him. And he always emphasized to invest in other parts of your life so that you have someone who will look after you in your old age. So I'm thankful that I worked for someone early in my career that provided that balance to me. It has impacted my outlook on work over my career, and it's advice that I've given to others as well over the years.

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Bethany:

Yeah, yeah. Something that one of my bosses says is, “it's just work”. Take your vacation, don't look at your phone. Keep working your personal life separate. They're big on that work-life balance. So I think that's so important to realize that you have a life outside of work and it's important to invest in things that are going to build up your own happiness outside of work, et cetera.

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Anne:

You always forget that work, work will carry on somehow the work will get done. So take time for yourself when you need it.

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Bethany:

Awesome. That's a great note to end us on. So thank you so much, Anne, for joining us today.

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Anne:

You're welcome. It was nice talking with you.

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Bethany:

Yes. Well thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And with that, stay tuned everybody for our next episode of Building Resilience. Thank you.

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Sources Used:

“Gentle pop song for podcast, intro and outro music” prompt. Suno AI, 4 Oct 2024. Version V4, https://suno.com/.

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“Red headed woman interviewing blonde woman for podcast” CANVA AI. 2024 version. 14 October 2024. https://www.canva.com/

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Rev AI. 2024 version. 24 November 2024. https://www.rev.com/services/ai-transcription